triple_d_ooc | Introductions are in order

Salutations. I'm a new player here and I'm bringing in Ciel Phantomhive from Kuroshitsuji. Jut a little info about him:

Ciel was your normal average child growing up in Victorian England until his 10th birthday when both of his parents Earl Vincent Phantomhive, and Rachel Phantomhive were murdered. It was believed that Ciel had also perished in the inferno that destroyed their palatial Manor house only he reappeared three years later with a butler clad all in black in tow. Now he seeks revenge against those that humiliated and sullied the Phantomhive name.

Also he took up the responsibilities his father left behind. Those baring the Phantomhive name have acted as Queen Victoria's unseen hand for years, ridding the underbelly of English society from the filth that Scotland Yard is unable to reach themselves.

He also runs a toy and confectionery company (Funtom). Ciel himself can seem cold and unfeeling but as a noble he is also able to be quite diplomatic. It depends on the situation really.

As a n00b, be gentle with me XDDDD. Looking forward to getting things running ^__^ and meeting you all.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

In your example alone I can think of a dozen different ways to write that same phrase in English and have it sound as though it were coming from a different speaker. Plus oftentimes characters will use words not associated with their gender. Like a girl will sometimes use "boku" for me, instead of "watashi" or "Atashi". That's the problem with words too... they don't always fit into precise categories as male or female, privileged or not privileged. An old person can use childish language.. a y9ung person can be brilliant. It's complex XD.

I didn't say they only used facial expressions alone. That was just a slogan they use. They also paid attention to what was actually being said. It was more of a slogan meant to be humorous XD.. but you can't entirely disregard the expressions either. It depends on the series and you should take the actual tone into account. Clearly.

Awesome! Thanks for the website. I'll have to check it out when it's not 4:30 am XD. The selection isn't always good but every now and then!

Wow! That is pretty lucky and amazing :D! Yeah it is. At my cheapy store the manga is like 4 dollars each, usually. Sometimes more. And sometimes they have manga in Japanese too XD.

Lemmie add a caveat XDD... cuz I'm too lazy to delete. "In your example alone I can think of a dozen different ways to write that same phrase in English and have it sound as though it were coming from a different speaker. " In that case I was thinking in terms of written language. Not matching mouth flaps like in anime XD... but then again.. I tend not to watch dubs.

I forget about mouth flaps XD.

Do you ever use aim or anything?

I could check the player info but.. that might be too easy.

And this is why you shouldn't answer tags when you should be sleeping XD

If taken out of context, is there a translation for each line alone that can give you a solid guess as to the type of character? Dame desu wa ("That simply will not do!"?) can probably carry the upper class feminine since it's a more extreme character type, but "Dame" as generally young/feminine or dame da yo as young/slight masculine or Dame jya as an elderly marker, not so much. The traits get used outside of their stereotyped type (bokukos and orekos; the da yo ending is common for girls who aren't hyper feminine (Winry vs. Roze); a stereotyped gay man would definitely use 'dame desu wa' like a refined upper class lady) so a character's collective dialogues are important to establishing the total feel, which is why I favor translating one line based on the other lines for the character, which seems to be what the facial group actually does.

Sometimes you get a Japanese writer who's honestly just not that good with speech styles. Bad writers happen. Good writers make mistakes. Since I favor accuracy above all else, if there's a sharp step out of character in speech, even if it's not an intentional or part of the plot, that slip-up should be translated as a failure. For example, mostly polite Al, in Brotherhood, basically dropped an MF bomb at Scar. Hilarious as "KISAMAAAAAAAAAAA!!!" from Al of all people is, it's so OOC, even in the heat of the moment, it ruins the heat of the moment. The worst Al ever uses in the manga to my memory is omae, and is more the type to use "kono" than that when doing a 'why, you!' routine. But even if it would lessen the experience of viewers, I'd say the diverge is a part of the work, so, go with an uncharacteristically rude translation. One, because that's what's there. Two, because doing otherwise is imposing a translator's view over the work or line. It's possible just to not really know the different weight of words, too. Kisama is a bad pick for Al, but Temee would be worse; probably most dictionaries won't denote the difference. It's all just "you (arch/vulg)". 　Someone might argue Al screaming 'Mother Fucker!' or 'son of a bitch!' or whatever is IC in context; but if they know no Japanese, and the translator decides it's so wrong it doesn't fit for translation, the non-Japanese capable who count on you don't have the freedom to consider that. At the same time, it's possible they might just assume it's a common translation flub where a translator just likes to make things more vulgar.

Translating the distinct differences between Al, Winry and Roze's speech styles without going overboard on any of them seems like it'd be a hell of a job, and there's not much chance of them getting mistaken for each other in Japanese. But there are some writers (right here in this game, no less) that I genuinely believe could do it; the problem is where there grasp on the character, and the actual linguistic cues do and don't match up properly. I'm sure as hell not perfect at it; as I said, my writing skills are on the low side. Greed's kind of an extreme even if quirky/language jumping type, so I get an easy job; our Issei (F/SN) player has a weird mix of vocal traits and while she doesn't know a lick of Japanese, she's fantastic at it. Issei has some rough masculine speech patterns but there's also enough old fashioned bits peppered in such that what's commonly rude takes a contextual step down, and then he's also actually fairly polite in a way and... well, I don't summarize it nearly as well as she plays it. Lot of good being anal does me who can't deliver.

That's the kind of challenge translators should be facing today, and when I see fan translations try harder without the means or access to research on the topic that a professional has, it's disappointing.

As for dubbing, I don't consider that a valid form of translation as far as fictional works go so adhering to lipflap isn't a real concern of mine. A dub is its own separate entity, like a parody or a fanfic. Whether it's good or bad is subjective, but objectively it is not the work in question.

Yup! I'm on AIM at CdnmMastermind pretty much all of the time. Feel free to start me off on an elitist bastard rant or watch me froth uselessly over the difference between "ka" and "no ka" without ever finding an answer.

I'm not sure that means the Japanese writer isn't good with speech styles, they may have done it intentionally to convey that the character is different, outside the norm or something along those lines. Though there certainly can be poor writers in anything and mistakes~!

I would have been surprised to hear Al saying Kisama o.o;. For sure. Inu Yasha could say it XD... but .. Al would be odd.

And it is disappointing when the professionals don't even try to remain accurate. I guess I'm not to the point where I don't consider a dub a valid translation XD even if I don't watch them. It is but it has to adhere to another set of rules. I imagine it would be harder to match the animation than to get words to fit on a manga page... though sometimes... even that can be tricky length wise. Japanese can contain longer sentences and phrases in a few words sometimes XD.

Awesome. I'm on aim a lot as Cyromew if you ever want to chat. LOL!!! At least you can joke about it to an extent XD. We all have our pet peeves right? Oh and believe me I can rant about translations too XDDDD... when something gets to me.

Introductions are in order

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Last one.

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I made your icon fall over.